By now you should have conducted at least one interview for our series. In Heat & Light, Robert Smith of NPR explains, "I want quotes that show passion, reflection, engagement, humor, or some emotion (p. 147)." What is the best quote from your interview? Why is it the best quote? What does it convey? What is the story/idea/point that could be built around it? Could it become the focal point of one of our articles in the series? Explain.
On the next page (p. 148), it talks about "logging" your interview. We can do this for a general interview as well. Make a transcript of the interview and highlight key ideas and points. Then summarize what information you think will be the most useful to us. Be prepared to discuss this in class.
Due: Sept. 28 @ 5 p.m.
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ReplyDeleteInterview with Jefferson Bethke, YouTube sensation who filmed "Why I Hate Religion but Love Jesus." He's also written a book, which I've received in the mail from his publicist and will start reading.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the best quote from your interview?
His thoughts on the Sabbath day, which was just interesting to hear from this perspective. I still may have to dissect this to see what he's saying: "One fascinating thing to see in Genesis is that even though the last day of the week was the sabbath, it was actually the human's first day. Since Adam and Eve were created at the end of the week, then the very first day to them was a day of rest, celebration, and walking with God. And then after that they could carry out their God given mission to create and flourish. We flip that though. We say work, work, work and you can find rest. When scripture says start with true rest (of soul, body, and mind, and identity), and then, and only then, can you properly work."
When I asked him about this phrase from his book that "Christianity is a bounced check" to his generation, he said, "A lot of people in my generation grew up in a quasi-cultural Christian context, but then once the real world hit them they realized they couldn't cash in on the Christianity they were given. It didn't bring life, breed joy, or ground them in any real place. Because of this most have left. But what I argue for is that that wasn't really Christianity in the first place. It was a weird form of post modern thought, industrial revolution spirituality, and some epicureanism with a lot of Christian lingo. I think the shift has driven us back to the scriptures and allowed us to rediscover the things that turned the world upside down 2000 years ago by a group of misfits and rejects."
Also, when I asked him about the trend of millennials leaving religion, he said, "I see some churches dying and some thriving. I think nothing new is happening though and our invitation is the same."
All three of these quotes are pretty strong and give us a good perspective into "the other side" of religious talk: a more street, down-to-earth quote from someone who doesn't want organized religion but wants spirituality.
This could help set up the scene of why people are falling away and introduce the trends.
My source with the Muslim Student Association ghosted me and that interview did not end up happening two Fridays ago like we planned. My friend at the University of Illinois sent an email to the director of Illini Life (Christian campus association) and the student president of Illini Life on my behalf. I'm waiting to hear back from both of them, and I will soon contact them personally if I don't get a response.
ReplyDeleteI've been dissecting my interview with Dr. Packard and wanted to share just a few of the best quotes and ideas from my talk with him.
ReplyDeleteI asked him why he thought millennials were leaving religion and he answered with great detail for about ten minutes what he's found in his studies. Here is the best quote.
“The story that we’re seeing about church decline is not a church story, it’s a society story. People no longer organize their lives primarily through large social institutions — it’s not how they think about getting together, it’s not how they think about getting things done or allocating their own resources like time and money. That marks a major difference in our society, even from 10 or 15 years ago.”
“If you wanted to be intimately involved in your local community then there were only a few ways to do that. You had work, were most people spend most of their hours. You get them all through school, but increasingly people don’t have their kids involved in classic public educations with a lot of charter schools and home schooling, or you could be involved in your local church. If you wanted to be in your community those were basically your outlets. All three of those things have shifted tremendously in the last 20 years. We have fewer people in the common k-12 education system. Fewer people working 9-5 with the rise of contracts and contingent labor. We have fewer and fewer people finding any use for the church in terms of being their conduit into the social life of their neighborhood. The internet provides more opportunities, social networking as well as non-profits engaging people and connecting them to places where they feel like they can be most effective.”
He also talked more about the rise of non-profits and more service-based groups helping people achieve their societal goals, without the need to satisfy a leader or feel that there might be strings attached.
Another quote I feel is interesting:
“People are less likely to trust their political leaders, especially in the wake of the recession. They are even skeptical about doing traditionally low bar things, like buying a house or a car when they graduate.”
Really declining trust, historically, from everything to Supreme Court justices to the House and the Senate.
I interviewed Neylan McBaine (PR background, has done a campaign with LDS Church as client, authored book "Women at Church"). I've put some of the main ideas gleaned from the interview in all caps. It’s a lot (I'll use multiple posts to paste it). I start with the reasons why the trend is happening and end with Neylan’s observations of what is being done/what can be done.
ReplyDeleteMORAL VALUES
She referenced Jonathan Haidt's "five moral spheres" as having application to millennials. Apparently at some conference, he suggested that millennials are most concerned with the first 2 of the five, the five being:
1. Harm
2. Fairness
3. Community (group loyalty)
4. Authority
5. Purity
Neylan: "Those last 3 things less important to younger generation. So when you’re asking someone to devote so many resources and energy to an institution that plays in to the other 3 value-drivers, there’s sometimes a disconnect."
Here's a NY Times article that references the 5 spheres: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
WORLD TRENDS SHAPING MILLENNIALS
She talked about how millennial don’t have a central enemy. She referenced the famous quote “If you want to bring a group together, they have to have a common enemy.” She said that past wars/central causes “created a country where people were more committed to institutions.”
“For millennials there’s very little sense of that permanence—we haven’ had a central enemy that people are rallying around. With military conflicts, millennials are very hesitant to say Muslims are our enemy…”
“…ability of technology to humanize enemy…giving stories and faces, you can’t just vilify a whole people anymore…that’s had an affect in our ability as Americans to rally around common cause.”
-Reasons for Catholics decline: sexual scandal…Favorability of Pope Francis has increased, but ATTENDANCE has not
-She said to look up NY Times article “The Changing Face of the Catholic Church” & also another article about dropoff of religious questions on Google searches—demonstrating general apathy towards questions of the soul.
“At Bonneville (ad agency where church was her client), missionary questions usually rooted from where did I come from, where am I going, but people don’t ask those q’s anymore! They don’t think there’s an answer.
There’s been this profound shift in spirituality doesn’t rely on a community; it’s about personal journeys. And the belief that churches can morph to reflect personal journeys…”
***** “Originally it was about morphing to an institution. Now people are shopping for institutions based on what they currently believe and want.” *****
Part 2 of Neylan McBaine:
ReplyDeleteMILLENNIALS QUESTIONING ROLE OF RELIGION BECAUSE HARM & FAIRNESS ARE THEIR TOP VALUES
She talked about how millennials are questioning the role of religion and asking themselves, “What is the role of this institution?”
“They want church to be a mechanism for social good…how do you balance inward things with outward—being a welfare provider?”
“If they’re (millennials) looking outside themselves, they’re asking themselves, ‘Is this religion helping me do that—help other people…but they perceive the church as something much more insular, something less tangible.”
SABBATH DAY OBSERVANCE—analyzing the LDS (and other church’s) initiatives to get members in the pews
“Sabbath day observance in a communal way is a way of unifying a community
I have theory one of things church is struggling with—the fact that simply being a member of the church doesn’t necessarily lead to social markers…in the past it meant you agreed with each other on major social debates. I think we’ve been reeling from the last 10 yrs—that those social markers can’t be taken for granted anymore….you can have members on different sides of same issues. We don’t know how to act unified without speaking in a unified way.”
“How do you express unity with people who may be deriving very different conclusions from the same teachings?....sabbath day observance, it’s a way to culturally mark a people….it’s something that’s apart from these social and cultural debates, it’s proven to have a beneficial effect. It’s something that ultimately results in unity.”
She said how churches are starting Sabbath day observance initiatives for the reasons above, & churches realize we need focus here especially because millennials struggle with “separating oneself from world for a day…distancing yourself from your device in church, making space for spiritual experiences is something that millennials probably struggle with not because of fault of own, but because of the presence of technology.”
Part 3 of Neylan McBaine:
ReplyDeleteEXISTING SOLUTIONS:
According to Neylan, there are 2 opposing approaches to this: 1. moral relativism (compromise) & 2. standing by absolute truth.
Moral relativism:
Example: magazine “Relevant” – Christian hipster magazine—lifestyle=oriented—lots of interesting fodder there
“Christianity Today”—academic slant
-Music that fits your aesthetic…..
“One approach is to fill the pews by compromising—moral relativism—saying what people want to hear—‘what is right and true today might not be right and true 50 years ago.’ What’s interesting about that, is it’s actually not getting more people in the pews. Attendance is lower than when people start doing this.”
“The second approach is what most people would say we’re (LDS Church) doing, although I’ve seen some softening on social issues—is a much more absolute approach, where truth is truth, it’s been revealed to be such and always will be. I’ve heard people bear testimony of constant truth, institution not blowing with wind of the day.
“Both approaches have pros and cons, but it seems to me that a church like ours that’s really dedicated to standing for absolutes is more attractive to true spiritual-seekers than something that is trying to meet the desires they’re trying to attract.
-She also discussed how the Church’s approach to LGBT issues has improved. Prop 8 was highly charged & pushed our moral agenda on people who didn’t want it. That approach made us seem hateful. Whereas now, the Church is re-framing the issue. The Church is emphasizing legal issues, drawing parallels between LGBT rights & religious freedom, and it’s even backing legal rights for the LGBT community.
-Virtual discussion/support communities: “These can narrow or codify viewpoints rather than expand them. That’s true for conservative just as much as liberal ones—blogs, podcasts, etc.—they tend to speak to their own and use internal vocabulary.”
“If you want people to listen to you and respond you need to create a bond.” She spoke against the ‘us vs. them’ mentality.
NEYLAN’S SOLUTIONS IN HER SPHERE:
Neylan authored “Women at Church,” blogs regularly, and presents at conferences like Fair Mormon to help moderate women’s issues in the LDS church. I can pull relevant examples from her book to include in an article we write. As for what she said in the interview:
“I work for change within that organization, and I know the mutable area is a lot smaller than if I were trying to change the Episcopal Church…”
“My goal would to be more consistent in practices—not to vilify (men/priesthood), but we can have greater consistency in the way we adapt our practices to meet the needs of women specifically. The burden of that rests on both laymembers and general leadership.
“Women feel power within here, but they’ve created power within a sphere. It’s about changing the circumference of that sphere!”
“We as women have been forcing our selves to be OK with that for centuries, and I think the book (Women at Church) blew that open—you don’t have to be ok with that, there are outlets you can expect to have influence…without challenges men’s sacred responsibility to be holders of God’s authority.”
I interviewed Wes McAdams on Monday night. Sorry my blog post is late. It took me a while to transcribe the interview.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite quotes from the interview are:
"I’m very committed to the idea of not allowing our culture to take us away from the core principles and a lot of that revolves around the way that we worship. We want to make sure that our worship and the way we live our life is true to what we find in scripture rather than what our culture thinks is acceptable or relevant or whatever. One of the big things for me is not changing the way that we worship God in order to attract the world but that we teach the world who God is so that we bring our hearts, we bring our minds to him rather than trying to conform him to the world and so I guess worship would be a big way that we want to practice 1st century Christianity but also just keeping the gospel central to what we’re doing to everything that we teach and the core of everything that we are, keeping the cross central to that."
"If we’re really going to reach people on an individual level then we have to treat them as individuals. I think for me, personally, I have always wanted to be treated as an individual. I want people to get to know me not just to try to understand statistics about my demographic."
"he world tells them that nothing is solid, nothing is true, nothing is sure and nothing is absolute. There is a certain appeal to that because it is freeing to a certain degree. It tells you that you can do whatever you want to. But then at the same time there is nothing to hold you down. There is nothing to hope in or to trust in and that is a very scary place to be."
"We have to be the kind of people where if we want to continue to be relevant it needs to stay about Jesus. If we start chasing every trend than we cease to be relevant because the gospel is the only thing that is timeless that will always be relevant. In our efforts to be relevant we’ve abandoned the gospel and have thereby abandoned our relevancy as well."
I think Wes will be a good source to use because he talks about not changing the gospel just to appease the masses.
What is the best quote from your interview? Why is it the best quote? What does it convey? What is the story/idea/point that could be built around it? Could it become the focal point of one of our articles in the series? Explain.
ReplyDeleteI interviewed Colleen Campbell, a Catholic journalist who focuses on faith and wrote a book (a long time ago) on how young people were starting to embrace religion. She made an interesting point that there are many young people who are attracted by a demanding religion and put off by one that panders to them.
My favorite quote:
"I think there’s such an emphasis on marketing to young people that even religion is marketed to them. And they get turned off by it. And when they can find an authentic person who’s living their faith authentically and calling them to live with that same authenticity that’s difficult, often that’s what begins to make the connection with them and excites them.”
I think this is the best quote because it kind of succinctly says what her main point was: that millennials are used to marketing everywhere, so much so that they like it when something stops trying to give them what they want and instead asks something of them.
This is an interesting angle on solutions, that churches can either make it as easy as possible for young people or ask something of them and make them into contributors.
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ReplyDeleteJust had my first interview today, wooo!!! It was with Mark Holmes, a 4-year member of Illini Life at the University of Illinois. I have a phone interview with Dean Inserra of City Church tomorrow!
ReplyDeleteTranscript:
What is the purpose of Illini Life?
MH: Illini Life is a campus ministry that aims to be a representation of the church by actually being a church as well as a campus ministry. There are families from town that are involved along with their children, and we even have a high school ministry. But mainly, Illini Life strives to meet students at the University of Illinois, share Christ with them, and develop them into lifelong disciples of Christ.
Why did you choose to be part of Illini Life and what was your role there?
MH: I chose to be part of Illini Life because of their focus on biblical community. Our small groups are referred to as Home Fellowships (HF for short). At HF, we are with a few staff members, community members, their children if they have any, and other college students. To me, HFs seemed to go beyond the scope of a typical bible study due to the depth of out relationships and was the closest thing that I had ever experienced to the church in Acts 2. As for my role in Illini Life, I served in 3 ways. First I was a Connect Group leader. Connect Groups are the dorm focused ministries used to meet new students, get them plugged in with spiritual/biblical discussion, and then hopefully transition them to HF membership. Second, I served on the worship team as a drummer for 3 years. Third, I served on the Student Board for all 4 years, which acted as a panel of student feedback for the pastoral staff as well as the incubator for student led initiatives and church-wide efforts to either train leaders or reach campus in new ways.
Why do you think young people may seek spirituality instead of organized religion?
MH: I think that the rise in spirituality instead of organized religion is correlated to the rising prevalence of pluralism in our society. Everybody has an opinion, and it has become increasingly taboo to tell somebody that their opinion is wrong. It seems that as long as something believes in something, and what they believe works for them, then for them it is their truth. In a sense, one persons ignorance is now equivalent to another's truth. For example, we see this played out in the news even in the heated debates about the safety of vaccines and the reality of climate change. There is a scientific truth that can't get across for some reason. So as Christians, who believe in an objective higher truth, how do we then convince millennials (some of whom cannot even be convinced of observable scientific phenomena) of the reality of God and the Resurrection? This is all a round about way of saying that organized religion does advocate for that objective higher truth, which isn't something millennials are receptive too. Spirituality on the other hand does begin to itch the scratch that all of mankind feels for purpose, escape, salvation, etc, but it does so in a way that allows for people to believe what they want and still have it be true. I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, please ask clarifying questions and I'll try my best to rephrase.
Have you spoken with any youth (meaning millennial aged, doesn't have to be a minor) who may identify as a "none" (someone who does not attend a church and does not identify with a specific religion)? If yes, what insights have you gained from talking with them?
MH: I have. And my overall sense is that they have completely bought into the zeitgeist of current public opinion on what is moral. They are both in the world and of the world. From my conversations, it seems as if the moral and biblical teachings of Christianity are outdated, mythical, and not to be considered as real historical events. It is unfathomable to many that a sane person would oppose gay marriage or believe in life after death. To them these are just delusions. (Mandy note: this is a strong quote for us)
How does Illini Life attract millennial members? How do you retain them? What challenges does Illini Life face in trying to attract and keep millennials?
ReplyDeleteMH: I think that Illini Life attracts millennial members by having a church model for students to encounter real Christian community filled with people who have had their lives drastically changed by the work of Jesus Christ. While Illini Life believes all the typical Evangelical doctrine, it seems that we don't lead with the bullet point list of things you have to believe in order to be a Christian. It seems instead that we take a "come and see" approach to what a redeemed life is like, and to many of the students who have accepted Christ, they could not deny the reality of Christ and His work in the hearts of everybody in Illini Life. They felt something real, something true, and to tie back to the pluralism soap box I was on, their version of the truth was replaced with the real truth.
MH: The community is a huge factor in retaining these students. For one thing, being in a Christian community helps immensely in keeping students pursuing God. But even for the less spiritually invested students who are still on the fence a bit about what they believe, they ofter form good friendships with the Christians in Illini Life who love them dearly, and not too many people willingly walk away from friendships where there is sincere love and care for one another. This is what seems to get the typical millenial in the door, and what keeps them coming around until they have an encounter with Christ.
MH: Challenges we face in attracting and keeping millennials at Illinois is probably not what you expect. Students are just maybe a bit too studious. There is always and exam to study for, an assignment to work on, or a frat/sorority event to go to. Getting students to make Illini Life part of their weekly schedule and part of their life is very difficult. We have a hard time unseating the idol of personal accomplishment and career goals. Even in my own life I think I could have had more of an impact in Illini Life if I myself would have been okay with getting low A's or B's instead of constantly striving for perfection. It isn't always academics either. There is sometimes just too much potential fun to be had by a student doing various activities, that is difficult for students to make a deep commitment to an organization that might limit their free time to participate in other activities.
How do you think organized religion is going to change in the future? How is it changing now to keep members?
MH: Geez, I have no idea. I can't speak for the world as a whole, but in America I think it will continue to shrink. I can't imagine that our generation is going to be too occupied with raising their children in the church. As for changing to keep members, I think that the teachings change a bit in focus to address cultural norms. Topical teachings today are probably a lot different than topical teachings in the 1600's. Did they even have topical teachings in the 1600's? This may be an effective strategy because it is trying to teach biblical truth and break down sinful thought patterns or perceptions of the world.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any other thoughts or points you'd like to discuss about the Pew study or about your experience as a member of Illini Life working to keep millennials involved in organized religion?
MH: I cannot say enough about the effect that developing community has on a "none". There are people in Illini Life who are particularly gifted at friendships, and they are the ones who seem to always be bringing somebody to Christ. And not just the students who grew up in church and didn't take it seriously, I'm talking about the "nones". Genuine, Christ-like love for people is as profound now as it was 2000 years ago when Jesus was healing lepers and eating meals with tax collectors and prostitutes.
Best quote: "I think that Illini Life attracts millennial members by having a church model for students to encounter real Christian community filled with people who have had their lives drastically changed by the work of Jesus Christ. While Illini Life believes all the typical Evangelical doctrine, it seems that we don't lead with the bullet point list of things you have to believe in order to be a Christian. It seems instead that we take a "come and see" approach to what a redeemed life is like, and to many of the students who have accepted Christ, they could not deny the reality of Christ and His work in the hearts of everybody in Illini Life." (SOLUTION)